Independent inquiry by sitting judge only way to ease concerns about Pegasus: Shashi Tharoor

News reports by a consortium of media outlets have claimed that a number of Indian citizens, including political leaders and journalists were allegedly potential targets for Pegasus, a spyware developed by Israel-based firm NSO.

India Today TV's Consulting Editor Rajdeep Sardesai spoke to Congress MP Shashi Tharoor over the Opposition's stance on the issue.

Here are excerpts from the interaction:

Q: Should we be taking Pegasus hack relavations as an issue of critical national importance?

Shashi Tharoor: It seems to me that this is a very serious matter because what is apparently happened is that the Pegasus spyware which is there for tracking terrorists and criminals and is only sold by NSO to vetted governments was apparently used to hack smartphones belonging to journalists, human rights activists, politicians and at least one so-called constitutional authority.

READ: Pegasus updated guide: How it infects phones, what it does, how to detect and get rid of it

The implication is that the government is snooping on its own citizens, including many who are going about their own lawful business, is very serious.

We are a democracy and the rule of law prevails. While no one would object to the government intercepting communication to track terrorists or to prevent crimes, but private citizens, including Opposition politicians, enjoy a fundamental right to privacy. The Supreme Court has affirmed that in the Puttaswamy judgement.

If as is suggested, the ruling party is using taxpayers' money-funded software to obtain information on its political opponents as the targeting of Rahul Gandhi or Prashant Kishor suggests, that would be unethical and misuse of taxpayer's money for partisan political purposes, and it would be illegal because, in our country, there are very clearly established procedures as well as rules and laws under which there are authorised exceptions where you can intercept communications for national security but you can't just go on and hack someone's device.

Q: IT Minister said allegations of snooping are a fishing expedition based purely on conjecture and sensationalism. What is the basis on which these allegations are being made?

Shashi Tharoor: The government's view, as far as I am concerned, is to be taken very seriously. But he [IT Minister] says there is no unauthourised surveillance, the question that automatically raises is - has there been authorised surveillance?

And if there has been authorised surveillance, then on what basis was it authorised?

Shashi Tharoor #Exclusive! @ShashiTharoor calls the #Pegasus scandal a matter of concern. Listen in.#NewsToday | @SardesaiRajdeep pic.twitter.com/RmqlnwOqq9 — IndiaToday (@IndiaToday) July 19, 2021

The law is very clear - National security, integrity of the nation and national sovereignty. Very difficult to justify that in the case of some of the names mentioned. The names are speculative, but on the basis of the names on the database, a number of phones have been forensically analysed and those phones that have been forensically analysed include 10 in India, of which, seven iPhones in India have been proven to have the Pegasus hacking virus installed.

The question is who installed it? If governments are the only ones capable of installing it, if the Indian government didn't do it, then foreign governments must have done it. Isn't that equally worrying for us as a national security concern?

Q: Parliament is in session. How does one resolve it given that there is a danger of being trapped in the usual debate?

Shashi Tharoor: An independent inquiry is the only way that would put people's minds at rest. If there is an inquiry saying very clearly that this is the evidence, we've seen the facts as we understand it, we've heard all the competent government officials; we, being ideally an independent sitting judge.

READ: The battle for online privacy

As well as, of course, I do chair the Parliamentary Committee, and the Parliamentary Committee has these very subjects - citizens' data protection and security, citizens' data privacy and cyber security are all issues that are on the agenda of the committee and we, too, will ask our questions.

But a judge will be able to weigh the evidence and decide.

Q: Should all politicians with their names on the list voluntarily submit their phones for analysis?

Shashi Tharoor: Not just politicians, as we understand, there were activists, journalists and others. There is a list of about 100 odd names in India that have been identified. If you get a reasonable sample from all those names and phone numbers corresponding to the database, it should be a voluntary exercise.

If they submit their phones for analysis and hacking is established, then a crime is being committed, then it is illegal to do that and action will have to be taken.

Q: Is this India's Watergate moment?

Shashi Tharoor: I think the government's denial must be respected as the government's denial and there's no question that we have established procedures and laws.

In fact, the punishment for such a crime is also set out; it's apparently imprisonment of up to three years in prison or a fine of up to Rs 5 lakh or both for anybody who conducts unauthorised access to a computer device, computer resource, computer network. Section 43 read with Section 66 of the IT Act.

READ: Modi govt seems to have launched grave attack on Right to Privacy: Priyanka Gandhi on Pegasus row

In these circumstances, we have laid down what's possible, what's not possible and even what the punishment is. The only way we'll know if the law is breached is if there is an independent investigation in the entire Pegasus affair.

Q: Does this highlight our need for a clear data protection law?

Shashi Tharoor: I presented a private members bill on a data protection law three or four years ago. I've also been talking about this. There is a private data protection bill being reviewed by a joint select committee but that committee is a year-and-a-half overdue in submitting its report and now its chairman and two of its members have been made into ministers, so there may well be further delay.

Every other advanced democracy has gone ahead and passed a data protection law in one form or the other; some very impressive and far-reaching, and we could have moved ahead, learning from the best practices around the world.

Unfortunately, our government has decided to drag its feet on this matter and I'm sure Covid has also contributed to delays.

A data protection law is necessary but under the existing laws, there has been a breach and that is something that very clearly needs to be investigated.